Crema?

[liquidmonkey2000]

Here is an interesting blog which questions whether crema is actually a good thing.

http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/06/video-1-crema/

I only just stumbled across this myself so apologies if this is old news for you all. I will try this out later (only just had a double) and give you my verdict.

[vintagecigarman]

Co-incidentally, I just came across this earlier today in a post on the TMC forum.

I've since tried what he suggests, and feel that he may have a valid point. I've always found it easier to evaluate a new coffee as an Americano, rather than an espresso, as I feel that the nuances of taste can be easier to identify - Though that may well be a personal thing.

That said, if he's correct, my immediate reaction is DAMN! - What have I been wasting my time, money and effort on up to now?

[liquidmonkey2000]

No coincidence at all. That is exactly where I came across it too.

[RisingPower]

At the expense of sounding redundant, it's jim hoffman and, yes, I think crema means very little in the way of things. It looks good and that's about it.

Whilst coffees are degassing it's also quite a bit coarser and much, much more foamy and you do get the fizzy drink taste in the cup which ruins it imo, they also disappear much more quickly.

That said, scooping off a bit of crema occasionally, I don't really notice much difference in the taste in the cup without it, but I find the crema does give you a fairly good idea of what's to come.

Besides, you could hugely overextract stale coffee and still get crema. What that tells you is precisely sod all.

[liquidmonkey2000]

At the expense of sounding redundant, it's jim hoffman and, yes, I think crema means very little in the way of things.

Have I understood correctly, do you mean you are JH?. If so, great blog! (even if not it's still a great blog). I'll definitely try this out later. It seems so counterintuitive after spending so long trying to perfect my crema, but hey! Even if I end up skimming it off, it is still some sort of indicator (albeit not 100% reliable) of how well the shot was pulled.

Anyway it is good to have ones preconceptions challenged like this.

[liquidmonkey2000]

I have now tried this and agree that crema on its own tastes pretty blurgh! So I spooned off most of the remaining crema and and I have to say that the coffee was very pleasant without it, even if it did look all wrong.

From now on although I don't think I will loose the crema altogether (it just looks nicer) I will make a more concerted effort to stir it into the coffee.

[RisingPower]

Have I understood correctly, do you mean you are JH?. If so, great blog! (even if not it's still a great blog). I'll definitely try this out later. It seems so counterintuitive after spending so long trying to perfect my crema, but hey! Even if I end up skimming it off, it is still some sort of indicator (albeit not 100% reliable) of how well the shot was pulled.

Anyway it is good to have ones preconceptions challenged like this.

Hah, hardly. Nah, JH is awesome, to me at least.

[awlred]

The great divide!

This post caused a level of discussion that I think was more the intention.

Crema does very little in terms of communicating the quality of the drink you're making/serving/drinking, but it is a component part of what is described as espresso. I've found darker roasted espressos do gain notable sweetness with the crema skimmed off, but in most espressos I think the espresso loses some body and complexity.

What I take from James' post isn't that espresso is superior when the crema is skimmed off, but that we should never take anything for granted or accept it because it's 'just like that' and to look at what can be done differently in every facet of coffee.

[Clement VIII]

I've found darker roasted espressos do gain notable sweetness with the crema skimmed off, but in most espressos I think the espresso loses some body and complexity.


I have just experimented with and without crema and I agree. Though it is sweeter, the flavour is inhibited by a certain lack of texture. I experience it as a "carrying upward from the palate to the nose" (after consuming). Without the crema the sweetness is more direct but the body is lacking.
I experimented with a DaTerra Estate Bruzzi (City Roast).

It should be remembered exactly "what" the crema is. The roasting process will surely have an effect on how bitter or sweet the crema is as the oils which form it change their qualities. I think this calls for much, much experimenting :D

[MikeHag]

I really like the way JH is into pioneering new or alternative ways of thinking about coffee. Ideas are always good, IMO, even if they are bad!

In my limited experience good espresso has crema and I like it. The sensory blast I get from the crema is part of the joy of an intense and short coffee drink, which is what distinguishes it from brewed coffee.

If someone chooses to skim off the crema then I have no problem with it whatsoever, but please call it something else. To me that's no longer an espresso.
Addition or subtraction of components relegate the drink to being an "espresso-based drink" that needs a different name, just like adding a spot of milk and calling it a macchiato, or adding a big bunch of milk and foam and calling it a cappuccino.

I WOULD have a little mental block if we all jumped on the band wagon and started trying to produce espresso without crema straight from the espresso machine. I feel it would be pushing espresso towards being more like brewed coffee, with it's greater propensity for sweetness, and that would be a shame. Vive la difference! However, I don't believe that's the direction James was taking in his video.

[garydyke1]

Crema is all part of espresso experience for me, yes is it bitter if you try it alone, but, stirred into the rest of the liquid adds to the balance.